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Fubars snow jeep build

Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:40 am
by Fubar
Hi I'm new to the forum, I found this site while researching the topic.
I live In northern Alberta, so cold weather and snow are around 8 months a year, and I've recently developed an interest in snow wheeling via YouTube and the guys who take the old logging roads up the mountains through deep snow and yada yada yada...

I'm on to my 3rd jeep and am slowly collecting pieces. I'm moving in the spring back to Calgary, and also saving my pennies for a new truck. The 98 TJ is my dd for the time being.

My goal is to build a streetable rig , that's relatively lightweight ( or doesn't have unnecessary junk) that performs well in the snow mainly. I admit I don't wheel too, often last time was several years ago. I'm more in it for the 'project' aspect, but I plan on getting more involved in the sport when it's all driveable.

What I've collected so far:

98 jeep tj, 2.5L ax-5, 4:10s (stock) 240000km
Axles: dana60 & 14bolt
Motor: chev. 305 '98 vortec. (1st year of the vortec efi)
Trans: sm465
TC: np205 or np231. ( I will go with a doubler or crawl box of some sort)

Plans:

Keep a flat belly, stretch the frame/tub 15" to LJ length, lockers front and back, low crawl ratio at least 110:1, 40" tires +-, winch, alum armor, beadlocks and other stuff.

I know I may be handicapped off the start with a heavy drive line, but the motor is actually lighter than the I6 jeep 4.0, so add a bit here save a bit there sorta logic. I want to do it right the first time around and not be wishing after the fact.

Still contemplating leafs vs links, I know links are the thing to do these days but leafs from what I read May perform better for what I'm after.

I'm keeping the axles full width so this thing will be low wide and long. Dimensions are something like 68" wide axles, 108" wheelbase, and not much of a lift what ever is needed to clearance tires and drive line.

Anyways I won't have much to throw up here for a while but I figured a little new action on the forum wasn't a bad thing.

Also I'm up for meeting locals ect. My folks have a cabin in salmon arm, BC so I hear there's some good action out there.

Any insight on items for a purpose built rig are appreciated .. As I'm in the planning phases .. I need to know this stuff

-Matt

Re: Fubars snow jeep build

Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:19 pm
by Nobody
Welcome to the forum and thanks for posting your plans. I look forward to seeing some progress. Hopefully you work faster than I do!

Regarding your build, I have the same philosophy of having a vehicle that drives down the street comfortably. My bronco has a fuel injected 5.0L, and with 36's and 4.56 gears, it's just not enough power sometimes. Having big HP is not at all necessary, but when conditions are just right, it's something you'll wish you had! So with 40's, that 305 will probably have you wishing for more at times.

On axles, I'd probably steer away from the 14b just due to weight alone. As you know, those things weigh a ton! Depending on driving style, you can get away with a front dana 44 and rear 60, although with 40's, I'd lean toward 60's front rear. I'm sure you've seen some videos of Snowbatman99 on youtube. He runs jeep dana 30's front and rear with 38's. I know he's broke a time or two, but overall he's very successful with those axles.

I'm not really sure there would be any benefit to links over leafs or vise versa. I know leafs up front can cause some steering linkage headaches on some vehicles.

I run a soft top on my bronco all year. I'm really not crazy about it in the winter, but I don't care for the weight of the bronco hard top. If I was building a dedicated snow wheeler, I think I would pick something with a hard top and more of the creature comforts than my Bronco. But I'm too hard core for that ... :rolleyes2:

What's the reason for wanting to stretch?

Lastly, have a plan for on-board air. If you will be running a compressor, consider making your bumpers or rockers double as air tanks. Or a lot of folks just carry the CO2 Power Tanks

Re: Fubars snow jeep build

Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 10:06 pm
by Fubar
Yes I've seen snowbatman and the jantz guy with the big red jeep on YouTube. Those were sort of my original inspiration. I was going to build a jeep regardless, but I figured I'm a winter person and a snow jeep fits the bill.

I hear you with the weight of the axles as I don't have many buddies in the area or a engine hoist, so I've heaved those suckers around. I built each one a rolling stand just to move them around.

I'm going with disk brakes so I think that puts the axles at about 400 a piece. I'm guessing the stock ones are more like 200 each. So I did gained fair bit.

I'll be going soft top only, so that's a few saved.

Circumstances aren't ideal but parts and availability and cost are solo different across the boarder. Things are impossible to find and when you do they're 3 times the American price.

I'm at $50.00 for the 14 bolt ( guy had not idea what it was) and 300 for the d60, about200 for the engine and 200 for the TC/trans. So I'll take what I can get. I got a steal on most of these parts because I've been collecting over 2 yrs.

As for the small block chev v8 I was dropping in, I didn't think I would be lacking power to be honest. Maybe I over estimate it's power but it's defiantly a step up from the current 4 banger. The sbc motors can be made wild with the vast aftermarket support if I needed but I'm not much of a speed guy.

I picked up a York ac compressor for oba and will have to figure out how to mount that up. The hollow side rails idea is cool, I might steal that one from you :cool:

And lastly the stretch, I don't know the short wheel base on the tj makes it kind of awkward off road to me. I'm toying with the idea of a flatbed / brute conversion sort of thing to haul gear and drop a few lbs.

Maybe I won't stretch the frame but move the axle back at the least. The stock wb is like 95" or somthing! With 70" axles it will be like driving a cube haha :idea:

Re: Fubars snow jeep build

Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:03 am
by EBSTEVE
Moving axles vs stretching is the way I would go, easier and it will give you better approach and departure angles. As for a flat bed, it sounds great but often the steel gets heavy fast and can be heavier than original. If it was me I would not reinvent the wheel, stretch it, keep it low. As for links vs leaves, I went with links because I could do it for almost free at the time but I don't think its any better for the snow, its actually more probes go wheel hop.

Re: Fubars snow jeep build

Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:32 pm
by Fubar
Thanks for the input ebsteve & nobody

I do prefer the look of a short jeep with a good stretch and comp cut wheel wells. Maybe 6" back and 2" forward. I'd like to get in the magic 100" mark. It's about 95" now stock roughly.

I heard links sort of drive the tire downward into dips where as leafs being stiffer do the opposite and don't let the tire droop into the holes as much. ie. around trees or whatever.

If I did any kind of tube work I would make it aluminum. Considering the cage too. I would have to do more research to see if that would be strong enough.

Also if i went links route aluminum for those.

So I'm wondering is a low vehicle the name of the game? I mean you need some lift but a 10" monster truck is no advantage here , am I right?

On a side note
Today I ripped the covers off the axles to see what I'm working with. Looks like I need a regear- sitting at 3.55 front and 3.73 rear.

Also the 14b has some sort of posi or limited slip thing but I can't tell. Any input ?

Re: Fubars snow jeep build

Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:28 am
by Nobody
Lower will certainly help on the side hills.

Can't help on the 14b, but there is some advantage to having selectable lockers. with the use of line locks, you can force the uphill tires to dig in. It would be a nice feature at times.

Maybe you should throw that dana 60 in the rear. For a dedicated snow wheeler, rear steer is the shit.

Re: Fubars snow jeep build

Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:25 pm
by Fubar
Not much progress has physically been made, but I scoped out the guys I need to reprogram the PCM and trim the fat from the wiring harness. PCMforless.com and jimsperformance seem to know their stuff and at a good price too.
I'll send the harness off next week.

I've got an odd ball engine so I have to learn as I go.

I did however get the block ripped apart. It only had 130xxx km on it supposedly, and looks pretty clean.

I'm going to order up a compcams or lunati cam kit next week. I'll be going with a hydraulic roller rv cam, new springs and lifters. It will be grunty down low which will be nice in the bush.

Probably change the rings and get a hone job while it's apart too. It's going to purr like new.

I'm still learning, this is my first 4 wheeled engine rebuild.

:beer:

Sorry for the lack of excitement, but good bones are important to me


Nobody, I defiantly have put some thought into that one. I think I'll have a hard time keeping it street legal with rear steer, streetable is high on my list. I have fun taking toys out in chaos of snow storms :D

And I looked up the poundage for the axles the dana 60s 50 lbs heavier than the 14bolt. Just have to run bigger meats I guess

Re: Fubars snow jeep build

Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:47 am
by Fubar
going to drop off the block today at the machine shop.
decided to just rebuild it stock and clean it up. the cam and parts I needed cam to a total of 1200.00 , I just couldn't justify that for the engine build alone... esp since the motor only had 75,000 miles on it.

it did have some leaking gaskets though and a bunch of sludge and a block heater freeze plug was busted. so disassembly wasn't completely a waste.

I will still hone and re ring as well as new cam and crank bearings as needed.

one question for you guys- do you use the block heaters only our rigs? should I replace mine or just run standard freeze plugs. also I came across oil pan heaters.

since it will be a purpose built rig. mainly used in cold weather, it's something to consider. anybody have opinions on this?

Re: Fubars snow jeep build

Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:18 am
by Nobody
It doesn't really get cold enough where I live to need a block heater, although I wouldn't mind having a block heater in all of my vehicles. My Bronco is spoiled and gets to live in the garage. Fuel injection is nice too, I just turn the key and go.

edit: Are you talking about a 12v block heater that works while the engine is running?

Re: Fubars snow jeep build

Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 4:12 pm
by Fubar
the kind that you plug into a 120v outlet. I guess if I'm starting the engine in the winter then yes I should re install it.

here's a cool oil pan heater I came across. just rtv'd right to the bottom of the oil pan for better lubrication upon start up in cold weather. same idea 120v plug

Re: Fubars snow jeep build

Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 6:32 pm
by Jeep84
Hi there. I'm new. I live in Saskatchewan so i know exactly what your talking about. Yes, put it in. As soon as it drops below -18 C (Roughly 0 F), Not including windchill, there are huge benefits to "plugging it in". Especially on a brand new build. The oil pan heater is also a great thing to have, also a battery blanket. You can get those at any auto parts store. I don't have an oil heater myself, but i want one. I plug the other 2 into a tri-cube under the hood and just run one cord out. Also, remember; You only need to plug it in for 4 hours before you start it. Any longer than that, and you are burning cash without any more benefit. All those electric heaters under there use a fair bit of power when you add them up.

Re: Fubars snow jeep build

Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:29 pm
by Fubar
Hey jeep84 nice to see a neighbor on here :beer:
Thanks for the advise, I did pick up a new block heater on sale 25 bucks and probably will get the pan heater too.

Got my harness and PCM tuned and back in the mail today. It looks clean and headache free.

The block has been cleaned and checks out free of cracks, ordered the .30 over kb pistons and some floating connecting rods. 600.00 for the parts, pretty pricey so I'll have to recover from that one.
The rest of the cost will be machine work and small pieces ie bearings and gaskets

Looking back at it a newer LS would have been the smart choice. I discovered my block is the only one chev produced that doesn't have a 4" bore, so parts are more $.

Oh well, too far into it to turn back.

It will be different than the average joes I guess.

Re: Fubars snow jeep build

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:22 pm
by Fubar
Not much to report, got layed off and been Doing renos to the house to try and sell by march.
I scored a bunch of these stainless steel 3 gallon tanks cheap. Figure they will work great for on board air setup.

Also traded my buddy 2 of the tanks to use in a hotrod airbag setup in exchange for these sweet low profile dual 10" electric fans and the temp switch for the rad.

Slowly but surely.

Oh and we have plenty of snow just thought I would rub it in for everyone who says it's the worst winter in years haha.

Re: Fubars snow jeep build

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 1:31 pm
by Nobody
What are those tanks from? Hope you get back to work soon, and send some of that snow our way.

Re: Fubars snow jeep build

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 1:38 pm
by H8PVMNT
We use those here in MT. The freeze plug heaters make your rig more comfey faster because the heater is warmer right of the get go but I think the oil pan heaters actually do more for yor engine. We had -40° F this winter and my '80 Toyota would still start and run as long as I pluged my pan heater in.

In the past with no heater the oil would be too thick to start it.

Re: Fubars snow jeep build

Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:17 pm
by Fubar
Tanks were left overs from some compressor company good upto 250 psi.
Thanks for the pan heater info. I think I'll run both as well.

I re calculated my gearing ratios for the driveline and with 4:10 axles and the under drive / t case combo I'm planning I'll be able to crawl at ~300:1 in low low
I saw a video of a guy with 150:1 and it still seemed to fast for snow.

Snowbatman on YouTube has to be close to 300:1 and it seems to be really good for deep snow.
Just barely turning .....of course 4 hi on my planned setup would be about 150:1 so that's a decent spread I think.

Re: Fubars snow jeep build

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:37 am
by Nobody
Fubar wrote:Tanks were left overs from some compressor company good upto 250 psi.
Thanks for the pan heater info. I think I'll run both as well.

I re calculated my gearing ratios for the driveline and with 4:10 axles and the under drive / t case combo I'm planning I'll be able to crawl at ~300:1 in low low
I saw a video of a guy with 150:1 and it still seemed to fast for snow.

Snowbatman on YouTube has to be close to 300:1 and it seems to be really good for deep snow.
Just barely turning .....of course 4 hi on my planned setup would be about 150:1 so that's a decent spread I think.
I'm at about 75:1 which isn't low enough a lot of times, but I'd say I spend the vast majority of the time in 2nd and 3rd gear low range, ~18-38:1 (36" tires).

If I could control my idle speed, I'd turn it way down. When you need slow, often times the lowest gears just have too much torque. A super low idle smooths everything out. One of the tricks I often use is to lug the engine in 2nd gear.

Re: Fubars snow jeep build

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:53 pm
by Fubar

I'm at about 75:1 which isn't low enough a lot of times, but I'd say I spend the vast majority of the time in 2nd and 3rd gear low range, ~18-38:1 (36" tires).

If I could control my idle speed, I'd turn it way down. When you need slow, often times the lowest gears just have too much torque. A super low idle smooths everything out. One of the tricks I often use is to lug the engine in 2nd gear.
Nobody, have you thought of adding a hand throttle?
ive seen some pretty slick setups, this would allow a smoother crawl for those super slow times. I know when i lug it it gets pretty jerky sometimes.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/jeep-wil ... ottle.html

Re: Fubars snow jeep build

Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:55 pm
by Nobody
Fubar wrote:
Nobody, have you thought of adding a hand throttle?
ive seen some pretty slick setups, this would allow a smoother crawl for those super slow times. I know when i lug it it gets pretty jerky sometimes.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/jeep-wil ... ottle.html
I my case the idle speed is controlled by the computer, and I don't have a way to lower it.

Re: Fubars snow jeep build

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 6:39 am
by Fubar
Been in the middle of moving, buy/selling reno-ing a house for a little while..

plans have changed and I picked up a 1958 Land Rover Series II . I scored it for a 1000

Still have the jeep, but I may sell it or just use it as a cheap winter beater for a while.
I figured it was to "complete" to tear apart and rebuild.

I never really knew about the land rovers until i came across the ad, and they look pretty cool.

dont know anything about it other than it has a 3 or 4 cyl inline gasser, all aluminum body with rivet construction and the thing is small.
88" wheel base i believe.

heres my inspiration with the plans for the rover.

Image

still going to go with the same engine, axles and transmission.. might opt for a short tcase box like an atlas though... i dont think ill have room for the np205 with a doubler hangine off the front.

a new frame and stretch are also in order.