New 69 Bronco to Snowtrek.org - Seattle WA is my home base

[69BroncoSeattle]

Good morning all! I am new to the forum (just found out about this last night from some youtube videos actually) and have a mostly restored 69 Bronco that I purchased a few years back and have put all of about 300 miles on it since then. I need to customize this so I can have some fun in it and am looking to get some recommendations as well as hopefully meet some people that I can go snowx4'ing with. Rear fenders on my Bronco are uncut but I think that is going to have to change so that I can actually use it and have fun. I have a set of 33x12.5x15 that are brand new from my 89 Bronco that I was hoping to use on my 69 but it seems like the recommended tire size is 35 or larger. Either way, I don't want to ramble too much here but would welcome any and all feedback and hope to get this lifted and trail ready in the next month or so, and maybe I can follow along on one of your events. Cheers!

Lastly, I apologize if this is not a proper subject or material for this forum, forgive me as I am just getting into the rules.

Have Fun!

[EBSTEVE]

Welcome to the fourm.
I don't know specifically what advice you are looking for but I will start with cutting. I would not cut it if it was mine, there are a few Broncos running around with lifts and 33-36's out there and its not realistic to put it back. As for tire size I ran 33" tires for many years, you can do alot with them.
That said nice looking Bronco and any specific questions and I will help as much as I can.

[Nobody]

Welcome to forum! If your bronco was completely stock, I probably would not cut it. I see at least aftermarket seats, and if it's already had sheet metal replaced as part of the restoration, then I really don't see a big deal cutting it. Personally, I'd rather see a Bronco out being used than stashed away. If that means building a wheeler out of it, then great!

That said, Early Broncos are not the best snow wheeling Vehicle out there, if there is such a thing. But it is fun to be out there in the snow in classic bronco. So your first decision should be whether you just want to play in the snow, or if you want to play in the snow in a Bronco.

If you want to keep the Bronco for your snow wheeler, then you've probably got some work to do. Start a build thread for your Bronco, and we'll help you spend some money! Having a Bronco that I can drive comfortably to the trail has always been very important. It's not that hard to make them drive nice.

You'll want power steering and power brakes for sure if don't already have them. What engine/transmission do you currently have? Is the front axle Dana 30 or Dana 44? Rear axle, I assume is a small bearing 9 inch. Do you know what gear ratio you have?

Regarding tire size. I recommend minimum 35" if you want to be able to break trail. A vehicle on 33's can usually follow along easy enough.

[69BroncoSeattle]

Thanks for the quick replies! The bronco is not stock... The 302 was replaced with a 351, it has aftermarket seats (although I do still have the stock ones), the entire interior floor has been painted with the thick bed liner (undercarriage type spray) as has the inside of the top that I have, it looks like it used to have either an automatic or a 3 on the tree as there is s "nub" coming out of the steering column that certainly used to have a handle of some sort on it. The transmission now is a 4 speed with a super low granny gear for both first and reverse. As far as modifications go though, it is still something that I would consider pretty close to stock. Is there a way to run this safely with 33x12.5x15 tires withOUT cutting the rear? I would prefer to do that at least for a while to give me some time to see if I really thought cutting was necessary but the guys at Toms Bronco Parts suggested otherwise. I was anticipating doing the following upgrades: EZEFI fuel injection conversion, full power disc brake conversion, 3.5" lift, 33x12.5x15 TOYO open country tires, install "front half" roll bar kit to provide support to windshield and more coverage for driver and passenger (just in case), new weather stripping and halogen light upgrade with some fog-lights and probably a winch. I really want the ability to go have fun off-road but I will mostly drive this guy around the city which is why I am semi hesitant to lift it much higher and get bigger tires. I honestly don't know what front axle I have, nor do I know my gearing... I assume its possible that I would need to replace a LOT more than the above if I go with bigger than 33's but again, I am going off of advice from Toms Bronco Parts. I welcome and kindly ask for advice either for or against what I have heard. At the end of the day, it needs new suspension anyway as it drives like crap AND the wheels rub on the Radius Arms (I believe) at just about any turning radius when I am in reverse and that is just plain annoying. Those are the 2 things I want to get sorted out ASAP.

[Nobody]

Sounds like you've got yourself a wheeler to me. I wouldn't hesitate to cut it.

The 351W is great if the install was done well. Make sure the motor mounts and radiator are up to the job. EFI of course is great, however I prefer OEM fuel injection over the aftermarket stuff. Steve and I both run fuel injected 5.0L HO's from a thunderbird.

Transmission is likely either an NP435 or T18. Is the reverse gear UP or DOWN on the shift pattern? Also the NP435 will have an aluminum top cover. Both are good. The NP435 has a slightly lower 1st gear. I have an NP435 in my Bronco.

I'd pull the front diff cover and count the teeth on the ring gear and pinion gear. Sometimes the ratio is stamped right on the gear. You could look at the axle code on the VIN tag, but I prefer to confirm.

On the front axle, check to see if it has Ball Joints or Kingpins. The dana 30 has kingpins, and the dana 44 has balljoints. A dana 30 would have been stock for your year. You can get by with a dana 30, but it will likely break. Best just to swap it out. It's very possible the axle has already been swapped. If not let us know, and we can give you a few options on replacing the front axle.

You'll want to know if your rear axle is a small bearing or big bearing. Checked if the axle tubes have a step up in diameter a few inches before the end of the tube. If it steps up, then someone has swapped in a big bearing housing. That would be a plus. If you drive nicely, the small bearing should be fine at first.

There are some cost effective ways to get hydroboost 4 wheel disc brakes if you're not opposed to junk yard parts.

In regards to the front tires rubbing the radius arms, wider and taller tires will make it a bit worse. The best solution is a wider axle. At the very least you want to adjust the steering stops to prevent the rubbing, otherwise you risk nuking a u-joint or worse. If it only rubs on one side, the your front axle is likely off center. This can be corrected. To do it properly, you need a track bar riser and a "GOOD" adjustable track bar. You'll want to add some aftermarket steering linkage at the same time. I recommend the 1 ton chevy conversion. You'll need to do this to properly lift the Bronco anyway.

I'm not crazy about the Toyos, but they should work fine to get you started.

edit: I just took a look at your pictures again. Your rubbing problem is because of the wheels being used. 15x8's with the standard 3.5" backspacing would fix the majority of the rubbing problem. Of course, then your fenders will be in the way

[69BroncoSeattle]

The Reverse is over to the far RIGHT and then DOWN. I have essentially never use 1st gear as it probably maxes out at about 5 mph (by the time I shift into second I have already stopped moving forward, so I just start there anyway) . I like your way of the OEM EFI, any thoughts on how I can piece one together that would work with my motor? I do not know the actual year or what model my motor came from as it was done prior to me. I obviously don't know much about motors or mechanics in general, but I am very interested in learning. The Bronco is my first exercise in older cars and I am hoping to learn as much as I can. On a side note I just recently picked up a 53 Chevy 5 window pickup that I hope to fully restore in the next few years. I'm all ears with the best economical way to go about doing things. I am totally onboard with junk yard parts so long as its significantly cheaper than buying off the shelf from TBP otherwise I would rather just spend the few extra dollars and not have to deal with junk yard searches. I tried like crazy to find a SAS for my 89 Bronco but ran out of steam after about 4 months with nothing that I was told would fit. I'm sure a lot of that is just my ignorance, but again, I am hoping to slowly get thru that stage. I will check on the axle's tomorrow and report back what I find, or maybe more likely, additional clarifying questions and then photos to back up my lack of skills.

Thanks again!

[69BroncoSeattle]

Oh sorry, I didn't see your last comment about the tire rubbing until I posted my last comment. You mention standard 3.5 inch offset, which is what I think my 33's are. That being said, when you say my fenders will be in the way, are you referring to the rears only, or both the front and rear?

[Nobody]

Sounds like you have an NP435. See if the top cover is aluminum. Great tranny, and solves most of your gearing problem. And yes, they are designed to start out in 2nd gear.

There are OEM fuel injection options for the 351W, but I'm not really up to speed on what they all are. I do know hood clearance can be an issue if you don't get the right parts. You also want to make sure the parts are appropriate for your engine specs. I just read too many horror stories about aftermarket junk. I'm all about OEM. That said, you can make a carb'd 351W run really well. So don't think fuel injection is a must have.

Straight axles are pretty easy to find if you know where to look. Just don't look in my garage. If you need one, put the word out and I'm sure one can be found.

[Nobody]

Oh sorry, I didn't see your last comment about the tire rubbing until I posted my last comment. You mention standard 3.5 inch offset, which is what I think my 33's are. That being said, when you say my fenders will be in the way, are you referring to the rears only, or both the front and rear?

I suspect both front and rear will be an issue. I can't really say how much lift to clear such and such. I'm sure the folks at www.classicbroncos.com could help with specifics like that. I'm of the type to decide what I want, then make it happen.

[Oxen__]

nice rig.

hope to see you on the snow :)

i found a little snow today but it wasn't much.

i look forward to seeing you out.

[Baller]

Oh sorry, I didn't see your last comment about the tire rubbing until I posted my last comment. You mention standard 3.5 inch offset, which is what I think my 33's are. That being said, when you say my fenders will be in the way, are you referring to the rears only, or both the front and rear?

I suspect both front and rear will be an issue. I can't really say how much lift to clear such and such. I'm sure the folks at http://www.classicbroncos.com could help with specifics like that. I'm of the type to decide what I want, then make it happen.

I'd also encourage you to check out www.northwestclassicbroncos.com. There's a lot of great helpful people there that are more than willing to help a noob.

Baller

[69BroncoSeattle]

Thanks again for all the feedback. I had a crazy last 6 months with work and didnt find time to do anything. That being said, I have some free time coming up and am hoping to get my 4 wheel disc brake conversion taken care of so I can get my rig to STOP once I have my 33" tires on it. You had mentioned that you know of some tricks to getting 4 wheel disc brakes from junkyard runs, and I would love to get that "parts list" so I can either make those junkyard finds OR go to NAPA or something and just get the pieces from them - if possible. Also, I am hoping that the disc brake conversion that I do will still allow me to run my 15" rims that I have so I dont have to waste the rims and tires that I already have.

Next on my list is suspension - A friend was trying to talk me into getting 4 wheel 4 link suspension (or something like that) for maximum articulation for off roading, etc. I have never built up an older 4x4 before so I really dont know what my options are and if I can get similar benefits from possibly a much cheaper option. Do you have any thoughts? As I am going to run 33" tires, I was told I should probably get a 3.5" lift, but again, very interested in advice from someone who has already built up theirs. Again, your help/ideas is very much appreciated and if it would be easier to talk offline in any capacity I would welcome that as I am hoping to get this bronco road ready in the next month or so.

Cheers,

Josh

[Nobody]

A quick note on tire size, if you want to play in the snow, you'll probably be pretty disappointed with 33's. I recommend a minimum tire size of 35 inches. That's a good size for all around offroad use.

Rear disc is overrated, and will not really help with stopping any better. If your current rear drum brakes are in good condition, I'd lean toward spending money elsewhere. If they need work, then might as well spend money on disc.

If you're set on disc brake, I'd recommend the Explorer 8.8 disc conversion. It's more money up front, but you'll get a decent parking brake. The pull-a-part is full of explorers, so you can get the bulk of the parts pretty cheap, but "I think" you might be looking at having different housing ends put on, and possibly new axle shafts. I wish I had gone this route.

When did my conversion, the explorer stuff was still going for a premium. I did the Cadillac caliper and CJ rotor conversion on my Dana 60. The parking brake is worthless, so much so that I never bothered to hook it up. The rear brakes in general work fine though.

When it comes to stopping the main thing that is going to help you is power brakes. I did a hydroboost conversion with a corvette disc/disc master cylinder. Hydroboost is going to give you the maximum stopping power. I have no problems locking up 36's. Hydroboost is a little more complicated in that it works off your power steering pump, but you can pickup a junk yard astrovan booster cheap.

Factory vacuum boosters are a great option too, especially if you intend to keep your rear drums for awhile. Everything will be pretty much plug and play, so getting it installed is pretty easy.

On the suspension, I wouldn't really recommend a 4 link. If you have the fab skills and resources to do it yourself, then great, but otherwise I'd either go with the wristed radius arm, or a long arm kit. I run a wristed radius arm and have been perfectly happy with it. I made it myself for about $30. It's the absolute best bang for the buck. The long arm kits are nice too, but they will cost you a bit. The nice thing about the long arms,is that some can be bent to allow for a better turning radius.

This is my old V8 Bronco II with a wristed radius arm. It worked really well. Those axles are under my EB now.





I run a 3.5" suspension and 2" body lift to clear my 36's. I probably have room squeeze 38's on. I'm not crazy about body lifts, but I needed to clear my NP435 without hacking up the tunnel.

I don't really have any parts lists handy, but there is a lot of information already out there. It's been years since I did most of the modifications on my broncos, so I'm a little rusty on some of the specifics. If you decide the direction you wish to go on something, I can probably dig up some specifics.

I can say that I put a lot of effort over the years into having a 4x4 that is reliable, drives down the road nice, and gets the job done on most of the trails in our area. I make every attempt to use OEM parts where possible. I'm more than happy to help steer you down the path to a successful bronco build. Watch out though, these Bronco projects are like a can of worms. I've found that to do project A, you often have to do projects B,C,D and E first! $$$

[Fubar]

Not all that familiar with broncos, but you live in an area that has a decent 4x4 following. If your interested in the axle swap, your probably not going to find an exact 'drop in' unless you come across a guy with a bronco he's parting out. Check out your local Craig's list, we have kijiji up in canada but same difference.

Some decent swaps would be : dana 44 , Rockwells, dana 60
For rear axles: chev 14bolt, dana60, dana 70, sterling 10.25 or 10.5, dana 44 ect ect..

Some of those come in varying lengths from 1 ton trucks to 1/2 ton trucks and SUVs .

Search junk yard axle guide on Google and fourwheeler.com has a whole write up on pros and cons of each and what vehicle they come out of.

Swapping axles probably will require use of a welder and grinder as well as misc brackets and tabs. They sell these kind of things on sites like ballistic fabrication, genwright offroad, ect ect. Google is a useful tool.

Anyways hope that helps.
I'm still learning myself. And things get complicated in a hurry when you mix and match parts and years.