SNOWTREK.org

Currently I am running Treadwright retreaded tires with "Kedge Grip":



Ya, I know, retreads; how pathetic! But I love them. In deep snow, other rigs with bigger tires rarely do better than mine. And, on packed snow/ice I haven't seen another mud tire that does as well. But, last weekend I destroyed one of my tires. I'm using this as an excuse to go to larger tires (315/75R16).

Now I've always suspected that tire compound and siping are what get you through snow, even deep snow. Note that the "Kedge Grip" in my current tires is crushed glass and crushed walnut shell molded into the rubber. According to Treadwright it "acts in a twofold way; first the walnut shell is designed to come out leaving small (approximately 1 mm) size pits in the tread surface that will act as additional siping and create more traction edges to grip the road. The second is the crushed glass which is designed to stay in longer and create a gritty surface to help anchor you to the road."

If they were available, I'd buy another set of Tredwright tires, but the size I want is basically on back-order. Since my spare tire is smaller than my other tires, I need tires now for the snow season. So, based on my theory that the rubber compound and siping are the most important, I'm really tempted to get Yokohama Geolandar I/T GO72 tires.



Note that while I drive my rig on the highway to get to the snow, basically I only drive it when going snow wheeling. Thus, while I need DOT approved tires, performance in deep snow is most important. Noise and on-road behavior are of minor concern.

So, convince me that lugs, such as on a mud tire, are important in deep snow - that they do more than dig you into a hole faster.

Surface area is important and lug edges to grip in some snow conditions. My big question or concern would be how a retread would handle the flex of airing down to single digits. If they would hold up to that and flexed well, like a radial vs bias, I would be interested.

I'm also a little leery of running retreads at low single digit pressures. I'm a bit jaded though from the time I spent as a tire monkey. That was a long time ago, and I'm sure technology has improved. I believe n16ht5 was running tread treadwright retreads and had great success with them.

Now regarding tread design. I think it really depends on the situation. On compacted snow and ice, I think those yokohama geolanders would leave us all in the dust.

I think your actual question should be "Do big voids help?". To that I say yes! I can't back it up, but I believe the voids are what really help in the deep snow. I like to think about it like comparing shoes in loosely compacted snow. Would you get more traction from a flat sole, or from a sole that also has a heel? Once you sink that heel in the snow, it's an anchor.

The other thing voids do is hold snow. Since snow sticks to snow very well, this works to our advantage. But we don't want all the voids full of snow, just some of them. So I like to see a tread design with varying sizes of LUGS and VOIDS to give us a little something in every situation.

The Geolander is just too linear for me. You'd really have a hard time cutting in and out or ruts and various other situations. You could probably wake them up with some grooving by removing entire lugs, but I'd really have a hard time cutting up a new tire as much as would be needed. There are some cool possibilities though, like instead of cutting out an entire lugs, just cut the lug height in half and re-sipe it.

To answer the lug size question specifically, I want varying sizes of lugs large enough to accept additional siping.

You also touched on rubber compound. I can say for certain that the rubber compound makes a significant difference. Back in the days of Gateway Gumbo and Buckshot Mudders, there were two distinct rubber compounds used. Those made in the USA were a nice soft rubber, but those made in Iran(?) were worthless in the snow. The rubber was really hard, and even worse in the snow. You had to be real careful making your purchase to ensure you got the USA tire. So it's not all about the tread design.

Based on my personal experience, given the two tread designs above, I'd pick the Treadwright design.

"I think your actual question should be 'Do big voids help?' "

You're absolutely right, my bad. :)

"... grooving by removing entire lugs"

Wow, I knew posting here was a good idea. I like that concept. Cutting up a new tire doesn't bother me too much, and it would allow me to do something of a comparison, though not head-to-head. I could run them for a while as-is, and then cut out some lugs and see what the difference is.

Now, what pattern of lug removal would be best.....

That tire has all kinds of cutting possibilities. Years ago I had a friend that ran the Yokohama Geolander MT's. They actually did really well. Seems like it would be about what you get after cutting!



The Baja claw "radial" is also supposed to be pretty good. Very similar to the Geolander MT


edit: you also might want took up the tread depth (or lack of) on the Yokohama Geolandar I/T GO72. Most mud tires are in the 19/32 - 21/32 range.

Yep, I found the specs for the tire in a .pdf brochure from Yokohama's Canadian division. Most of the sizes have 13/32 or 14 /32 in tread depth, but the 315/75R16 has 20/32 (the only other deep tread sizes are 285/75R16 and 31X10.50R15 both with 19/32). They obviously expect these 3 sizes to be used differently. The 315/75R16 is even more unusual in that it has a LOWER maximum load (and lower max psi) rating than the 285/75R15 and even the 275/70R16.

The 315/75R16 has a maximum pressure of 35 psi and a load range C rating. This makes me think it will have flexible sidewalls which should be good.

Note: It seems these tires are marketed in Canada but not the USA. However Amazon sells them so I assume they will ship them to a US address.

What vehicle are these tires for? No way to get up to a 35?

One of the reasons I like my radial tsl's is the 2 ply sidewall. I think you're on the right track going for the lightest load range.

They are for an '89 Dodge Raider (AKA Mitsubishi Montero, AKA Mitsubishi Pajero).

Granted the 315/75R16 has a diameter of only 34.5, but many so-called 35" tires are also about this diameter.

Even these tires will probably rub at the front of the front tires. I will bend some of the sheet metal that is in the forward part of the wheel well, but I really don't want to cut the fenders. When in a hard right turn, the front of the driver's side tire will probably rub on the steering box, which is hard to bend out of the way. I could move the tires further outboard with spacers or rims with a different offset, but this might make them rub on the front edge of the fender.

Now, it just occurred to me, that with my double A-arm front suspension, I might be able to shim the A-arms to move the tire to the rear a little where there is slightly more room. I'll have to look at this possibility.

MAN it's a 1989!!! cut those fenders!! bash the firewalls! I have used shim style wheel spacers to keep from frame rubbing.

I go for the heaviest load range.. then just air down more. I've sliced a ton of sidewalls, it will really ruin your day. You can get all the tire flex if you air down more. Big lugs DO help IMO, I have had short, tightly spaced knob tires spin when they need to chew through deep concrete. it really depends on the snow conditions.. I just stick to knobs because they work everywhere.

I really want a set of these AT405s from these guys: http://www.arctictrucks.com/?pageid=1296&categoryid=208

An actual snow tire that's 38".

I think big lugs do help alot but in my experience it depends on the temp and consistancy of the snow. I have been spanked soundly by mild all terrains when running siped and bead locked 3-4 psi swampers and then I have been the only guy who could break trail with the same tire another day, it just depends on the type of snow. I have been the most happy all around with mild mud terrains. The MTR w/Kevlar worked really well. The treadwright guard dog really suprised me in the snow and was one of the best I have had. That one kind of goes along with Nobody's theorey with a tread that has alot of variation. I ran the treadwrights at low psi and lots of abuse with no problems for 40K miles by the way, but some people will never be comfortable with retreads.

I drive WAY too many miles not to buy a set of all terrains this time around, probably BFGs or those new Falkens, I will certainly post up snow wheeling results when I get them. Hopfully if I don't wear those out too fast I can afford a set of those 36 tsl radials or some IROKS to slap on for nasty stuff.

I could easily justify like 7 sets of tires...

What would you recommend for the dry Icy crystal type snow in a 38-42 size?

Fubar wrote:What would you recommend for the dry Icy crystal type snow in a 38-42 size?

A snowcat. That surgar snow is seriously nasty stuff.

I'm not sure there is any good tire for those conditions, but if I had to choose, I'd go for a less aggressive tire with tighter voids. I suspect the The Artic Trucks guys are primarily in those conditions. They run Dick Cepek tires, and created their own Arctic Truck AT405 tire.

http://www.arctictrucks.com/?pageid=1296&categoryid=208

AT405


Dick Cepek

Hmm going to have to do more research but that's basically the only kind we get here, except for when it's melting in spring

Keep in mind, tires are only part of the puzzle. Driving technique, and a very gentle drivetrain will help tremendously. A lot of times the conditions that cause the surgar snow also produce a solid crust that you can get on top of. Then it's all about taking it easy.

What do you think of Maxxis M8080 Mudzilla 37x13.5 R15?


I don't know if I need that much on a vehicle with total weight about 4000lb.
I thought of BFGoodrich MUD-TERRAIN KM2 35x12,50R15, but people here say that with our cold (down to -40C, and -20C or 0F is common) BF Goodrich KM2 even rolls not smooth after staying for some time before it gets warmer.


Speaking of AT405... Arctic Trucks guys do not sell it. Here, it is only possible to buy some with non-existing letter which indicates its speed rate, i.e. not genuine tyre.

I would buy BF Goodrich MT for its robustness versus asphalt, and it's cheaper...
Can you say, does BF Goodrich MT KM2 have winter index (this one is for road patrols)?

funride wrote:What do you think of Maxxis M8080 Mudzilla 37x13.5 R15?
http://www.extremetyre.ru/pic/t/ta7005_b.jpg

I don't know if I need that much on a vehicle with total weight about 4000lb.
I thought of BFGoodrich MUD-TERRAIN KM2 35x12,50R15, but people here say that with our cold (down to -40C, and -20C or 0F is common) BF Goodrich KM2 even rolls not smooth after staying for some time before it gets warmer.
http://www.extremetyre.ru/pic/models/tyre/normal/75.jpg

Speaking of AT405... Arctic Trucks guys do not sell it. Here, it is only possible to buy some with non-existing letter which indicates its speed rate, i.e. not genuine tyre.

I would buy BF Goodrich MT for its robustness versus asphalt, and it's cheaper...
Can you say, does BF Goodrich MT KM2 have winter index (this one is for road patrols)?

I'm not familiar with the Maxxis M8080 Mudzilla. It doesn't appear to be sold in the US. Are you sure it's available in a Radial? Everything I'm seeing seems to only show Bias ply, which I wouldn't recommend. I didn't have much luck navigating www.extremetyre.ru, but this site only shows bias ply options.

http://www.maxxistyres.com.au/tyredetai ... d=18&cat=4

On the BFG MT KM2, I have one friend that runs them. He only made it out with us on this one run last season. The snow was terrible, and everyone was having problems. That said, I don't think he was doing as well as us. I think the 3 ply sidewall on the BFG KM2 is a little stiff compared the 2 ply sidewall on my tires. I suspect a tire with a 2ply sidewall would run smoother in the extreme cold conditions too.



The Winter Index is something you need for inspections by Police?

The BFG website lists the KM2 as an all season tire.
http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/tire-sel ... re-details


I listed the AT405 above something to compare other tires to. We can't get them either.

Welcome to the forum. I'd love to see some snow wheeling pictures from your part of the world.

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What we need are a full scale set of these tires.

Baller

Lol, I remember those.