Winter Access Over 8 Miles of Unplowed Road

[Nobody]

I love your problem!

It's a high quality problem

[EBSTEVE]

Full size is always an option but they are alot more work to dig out and it can be challenging to turn them around.

[gbvol54]

Jam,

I've got Blizzaks on the Silverado. Highly rated snow tires, but that rating was related to pavement driving, not deep snow on Forest Service roads, but they'll get me there. Also have chains, and used them last Christmas.

Nobody,

Yep, off grid, and likely to remain so through my life time. Just way too far to justify a power line. The previous owners set up a small, but quality, solar energy system, and I'll add a diesel generator for additional winter use while I build up the solar.

And to both, Yes the winter access is a problem that I have to solve, but it's good to hear from guys that appreciate the challange. Most of the people I work with look at me like I've lost my mind. Heck, I'm retiring from my job, not my life. And what's life without a few challanges and adventures?

[gbvol54]

EbSteve,

I agree about the full size being tough to dig out. Been there, done that. Like to avoid doing that again. I'm sure that there are tons of stuff I could do to my Chevy to make it better in the snow, but I use the heck out of it as a daily driver, camping, boat towing, garbage hauling, rock fetching, etc. rig, and it's does those jobs fine as is. Besides this is a chance to justify another vehicle (and a type I've never really had before).

Kinda like a kid in candy store....

[Nobody]

Seattle to off the grid is quite the change! Keep us posted.

Are you familiar with Dick Proenneke?

[gbvol54]

Just a hillbilly from Tennessee returning to my roots, though a bit further west.

And no I haven't had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Proenneke.

[gbvol54]

Time for some education for this hillbilly if you will;

I'm familiar with Limited Slip and welded differentials from my quasi hot rods. Lockers, Spools and selectable lockers, not so much. I assume a locker is what the older 4X4s had where you got out of the cab and physically turned the hub to engage the 4 wheel drive, and that 'locked' that axle (both wheels acted together). I again assume a 'selectable locker' is one that can be controlled from the cab, but functions like a locked diff once engaged). Not sure at all about where a 'spool' fits in.....

[Nobody]

Just a hillbilly from Tennessee returning to my roots, though a bit further west.

And no I haven't had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Proenneke.

Dick Proenneke is a guy that retired and move to Alaska, WAY off the grid. Pretty fascinating guy. If you're a reader, check out One Man's Wilderness: An Alaskan Odyssey or watch Alone in the Wilderness. They run the TV shows on on PBS from time to time.

[Nobody]

Time for some education for this hillbilly if you will;

I'm familiar with Limited Slip and welded differentials from my quasi hot rods. Lockers, Spools and selectable lockers, not so much. I assume a locker is what the older 4X4s had where you got out of the cab and physically turned the hub to engage the 4 wheel drive, and that 'locked' that axle (both wheels acted together). I again assume a 'selectable locker' is one that can be controlled from the cab, but functions like a locked diff once engaged). Not sure at all about where a 'spool' fits in.....

Selectable lockers can be switched from "Open Differential to a Spool" from a switch in the cab. A spool locks both axles together, permanently. The same effect as welding up the spider gears. I used to run a welded differential. They really eat up the tires. Selectable lockers WILL easily pay for themselves in tire savings.

ARB Air Lockers are operated by compressed air. Very popular, reliable and hold up to large tires very well. You can use your on-board air to operate them, or buy the ARB electric pump.

Electric Locker. As you might guess, these are operated by an electric solenoid. Several of the auto manufactuers offer these as an option on new vechicles. Eaton ELocker is also available to the aftermarket. I know the older models weren't recommended with very large tires....that may have changed now.

The OX Locker is a cable actuated locker.

Automatic Lockers lock the axles together when power is applied to the differential, and allow one tire to "ratchet" when cornering, so long as you are off the throttle.

The Lock Right or Detroit Gearless lockers replace the spider gears. These are often referred to as "lunchbox lockers". They are easy to install, and don't require resetting the gears. These are best used in front end applications. You can also get fullsize automatic lockers such as the Detroit Locker. These replace the whole differential carrier assembly and would require the gears to be setup.

The locking hubs just enguage the hub with the axle shaft so power can be delivered to that tire. Some vehicles have automatic hubs(generally unreliable). Other vehicles, such as most of the modern jeeps, don't have locking hubs. The axles are enguaged full time. The 4wd is selected at the transfercase only.

[jam session]

Here's a link to a pretty good article on lockers to add to the previous reply.
http://project-jk.com/jeep-jk-tech/dyna ... ockers-101
I really like the elockers in my rubicon. It is really nice to be able to lock when you need it, but run open on the street. I use them a lot in difficult snow!

[gbvol54]

Seattle to off the grid is quite the change! Keep us posted.

Are you familiar with Dick Proenneke?

I fell for the Dick Proenneke reference hook, line and sinker. I didn't reconize the name but I've seen the video of his adventures many time on PBS. Quite the guy. I'm no where near man enough to attempt what he did. What Dick really needed was one of you guy's 4X4s. Of course gas might have been a bit of an issue.

[gbvol54]

Thanks guys for the information and link on the differential information. I'll get to studying.

[WILLD420]

I am going to probably be the lone antagonist here, but I think you will be better served with a plow truck.

Snow Wheeling is awesome until you have to live with it on a regular basis. What happens when your wheeler breaks? Walking to town isn't always an option when it's -20 and the wind is blowing 50 mph.

What about emergency services. You have one bad moment and go down, then it's up to the wife to drive. What if you both catch the swine flu and you get too sick to get out? Who is going to come and help you out?

While it would be a good amount of fun to bomb down the road and back and it's not likely that you will both be disabled, I think a backup plan might be worth thinking about. For 20K you can buy a hell of a snow removal machine and then make a little coin on the side if you need to finance your race gas habit. For 3 grand you can pick up a good plow truck in the summer that will handle 90% of your issues and leave you money to build a toy for those times that the snow outmatches your plowing ability. Or, you could put a plow on your wheeler like some guys have done.

I will 2nd the light weight theory, but keep this in mind. While building my rig, I have spoken to dozens of guys who have wheeled all over the Rocky's in snow. There is no perfect rig. Some days a heavy one will go where a light one cannot make it, and other days the only guys going anywhere are the Samurai guys.

Think of snow, like sand, but frozen, wet and full of hidden surprises. Sand can be hard as a rock when it's wet, similar to frozen snow. It can be sugary and bottomless, like sugar sand, or it can be a mix of the two, with water and mud underneath in the low spots.

If you go light weight, you have to float on top, and you have to gear it to crawl up on top of the stuff. If you go heavy, you need clearance and enough power to push all that weight through. A light weight rig with tons of power would be the best all around snow machine, but that costs a lot of coin. One other thing to consider with a small engine and tons of gearing. Sometimes you can't get the wheel speed you need to get through the drifts.

Snow is wicked stuff. Here in Reno, we have what we call Sierra Cement. After the fresh powder melts and freezes back up, we get about 4-8" of crust on top, then under that it is frozen sand. If you break through the crust, and spin out, you can dig to china and never stop till you hit dirt or rock. If you get on top of the crust and spin, but don't break through, it turns to ice under your tires and no amount of power will get you out of the holes. I am sure it is the same in many places.

Good luck.

[Nobody]

You bring up some good points about emergency services, and guests. I do think that if the road is driven regularly, it could be driven pretty easily by other 4wd's.

I don't have any plow experience, so I'm really not sure what the limitations of a plow truck are. I would think 2-3 feet of fresh snow could be a problem. I also suspect several passes would be required to sufficently clear the road? Could be pretty time consuming. Although a making a few bucks on the side could be nice!

[jam session]

Yeah, we have "Cascade Cement" up here but same symptoms. That was why I suggested he consider modding his Silverado. Properly equipped heavy full size truck could keep the tracks packed though Dodge or Ford are easier to put big tires on. Here are some pics to illustrate exactly what you are talking about from a run I did last Jan.

We're on top of about 3ft of snow here but the road had been previously packed by other traffic and a melt/refreeze cycle and there was only 2-3 inches of new on top of the crust. Jeep was aired down to 9psi and didn't need lockers for most of the run.


Bigger tires and/or lockers would allow a full size to stay on top but this guy didn't have the locker and tried to spin his wheels to keep moving. He dug those bottomless holes you were talking about. I tried to tug him out with the tow strap you see in the pic but it was really slick and he was approx double my weight so couldn't budge him. I ended up backing the jeep off the track into the soft snow so I could winch him out of the way and he could continue on.


On the way down we also found these ladies in a Toy Taco who saw our tracks and thought they could follow us, reminding me of the classic jeep bumper sticker "Don't follow me you won't get there" Turns out this truck did have a locker and I discovered after pulling them out and seeing them get stuck again in 20ft that they hadn't aired down. I aired them down to 15front/13rear and the Toy was great for the conditions this day. I followed them up to the trailhead and made sure they were turned around so they wouldn't get stuck on the way out. They were inexperienced and shouldn't have been up there by themselves.


Our destination was the Tonga Ridge trail for a snow shoe hike. Elevation here is about 4300ft and the snow was about 4ft deep.


After the hike we BBQ'd burgers before heading down the trail and finding the other two rigs that needed help.

[Nobody]

Digging with an ice scraper...classic.

[EBSTEVE]

Another thing to consider is where your road ties into the main road. Alot of places here the roads crews will pile up snow at any side road that us not plowed so you could end up with a huge pile to contends with.

[jam session]

So remembering the two vehicles that I rescued I was thinking about the full size truck option a bit more. Both of these rigs were capable of negotiating the snow that day with minor modifications. The Toyota just needed lower air pressure (ever aired down your Blizzaks? I bet not.) The Toy had decent all terrain tires but they weren't very tall or wide and were nowhere near as good as Blizzaks. The key that day was to have enough traction combined with flotation to stay on top. The big dodge would have been fine with an ARB in front or possibly with 12.5x33s aired down. If I recall his tires were 265 aired down to 15 and he did not have enough traction to stay on top. As soon as he spun a tire he began to sink. So I am thinking that 95+% of the time your Silverado would get you through. What do you do for the other 5%? Since you said that typical snowpack is only 4 ft I am guessing it is very rare that you get more than a foot at once. Aired down Blizzaks over a packed out track would handle that just fine. Adding a front ARB would help a lot with no more changes. Since you are on the east side you won't get the Cascade cement as much and you can push a lot of dry, powdery snow out of your way without huge tires and a lift.
My other rig is a dodge DRW 3500 which drove out of this no sweat, with stock size all terrain tires and limited slip rear axle, cause it was really cold and very light powder snow.


So what are you gonna do when you do get a storm that leaves big drifts or are gone for long enough that the snow drifts build up? I'd want to be as prepared as possible for self recovery. Add a winch in front assuming there are enough trees along your road to use as an anchor. Carry extra winch line to be sure you can reach an anchor point. You can get a decent Smittybuilt XRC10 for less that $400 that will be more than adequate for how often you would use it. I have an XRC8 on my jeep. I'd also put something in the bed to use as a ramp to help you get out if you ever do break through or come to a big snow drift. Both of the rigs I helped were hopelessly stuck with no way of getting out on there own. I am thinking of 4-4x8 sheets of 3/4in plywood cut in half with corrugated metal screwed into one side and 2x2in cleats on the other. With two sets of these ramps for each side it would be slow going but you could go forward 8 ft and then move the other set to the front. This obviously would be a pain but you don't have far to go to get through a snow drift or plow berm and I bet it would be rare. Do you know any of the neighbors and if so are any willing to help in an emergency? On my tonga ridge trip I had a phone contact with someone who lived nearby and wheels a highly modifed toyota buggy on huge tires. He knew where I was going and was going to send or come help if I didn't phone him by dark which was our agreed upon deadline. Next step would be a mild lift and bigger tires but not so crazy as to ruin the truck for your other uses. Just another idea on your excellent problem.

[gbvol54]

I go to work for a day and come back to a new set of information. Thanks to all. I'll try to comment in order:

WILLD420, your points are well taken. I've spent a bit of time on another site (PlowSite.com) researching plows and such and have gotten some valuable information regarding that option. It's really the common sense approach, the one used by the original owner, and likely cheaper (the consenses on PlowSite is that my Chev 3/4 HD would be sufficient withthe right plow (new plow ~$5-8K) and the assumption that I'm arround to keep up with the snow). My concerns with plowing are basically two fold, I don't have a clue what I'm doing (similat to snowwhelling in that respect) and the path it would make to my front door for every yahoo with a 4X4 and a cooler of beer (again somewhat similar to snow wheeling tracks, but the yahoos would have to try a bit harder). Plus I'm concerned where to push the snow (narrow road lined with trees).
But still the plow setup would be a valuable 'go to hell plan' (the plan you use when all your other lans have gone to hell).

Jam Session: Nice pics, except for the hat. On the other side of the mountains you'd need a red one instead of that purple thing. Interesting thoughts about a full size rig. I'm headed over to the property tomorrow tomorrow and there should be around a foot of snow. I'll air down to around 15-20 and see what difference I can notice. As to winches, yes I need one for my chevy and would certainly need one once I move. Question: why are they always mounted on the front? It seems if I get stuck going forward (or off the side of the road) I'd want to winch myself backwards, not forwards. How aout a receiver hitch both front and rear (and associated wiring) so one could switch location? And I like the ramp idea if I go the full size route and have the bed space. On the friend only a phone call away, that a good point as well. As for now I'll be on my own along with the wife and dogs. We'll be new to the area and it will take time to form that sort of relationship. Knowing when to back out and go to a hotel will be important for a while....

EBSTEVE: We are lucky so far on that point. They seem to keep the access point to the mail road open or at least have done so the two times we've been there with snow cover.

Packing up for a couple week stay today. Headed out tomorrow. I'll send some pics if we really do have any snow cover.

[jam session]

Haha, yeah we are a split family. I am a UW grad but my daughter has degrees from both UW and WSU.

Tire pressure comment....I don't think 20 will be low enough to help much. You need to go low enough that the sidewall has a noticeable bulge. Snow is very forgiving for low pressures if you drive smooth and corner slow (which is good technique anyway). I ran as low as 7 with my stock wheels last year and plan to go even lower this year with my new beadlocks. Recommend you carry a portable 12V compressor. You can by a cheep one for $50-75 or a decent one for $150. Higher CFM will fill the tire faster. You don't want to drive at speed aired down that low.

Winches are usually mounted on the front cause we expect to get past the obstacle and continue on down the trail. It is also normal practice on difficult trails to wheel with a buddy. The jeep in the rear can then pull the lead jeep back if needed. This would be common in deep snow where you are breaking trail and the front rig continually gets stuck. Since you will be alone, I think your idea of a receiver mount is a good one, though I'd be a little worried about theft. Guess you could get a locking pin for the receiver. You'll also want to get a recovery kit with your winch including a couple shackles, tree strap, snatch block etc.

Have a good trip, looking forward to some pics.